Mon 12 Feb 1776
Minutes of 2nd reading of Stroudwater Navigation Bill
Luna, 12o die Febrii, 1776
Further hearing of Counsel on Stroudwater Navigation Bill.
Counsel of both Sides called in.
Daniel Chance again called in.
How many Persons employed?
About 5000 actually employed and 5000 more whose Bread depends on the others.
Can the Canal receive water from any Stream that does not supply Stroudwater, or from Stroudwater itself?
Not one - Knows the Country well - No water can be spared without injuring the River, and the Mills on Stroudwater
Do the Mills now lie idle?
From 3 to 6 months from a shortness or want of water - in Dry Seasons lye idle Two third to a half the Time - We want all the Water we can get - but cant speak to the quantity - Is no judge of canals - Water runs by on a Sunday, but it's not waste - it's for the Service of the lower Mills - I belong to the third Mill from Wallbridge.
Who are the Petitioners for the Bill?
Chiefly the People above Wallbridge, only one Proprietors of Mills.. Mills below Wallbridge are well employed, seldom lie idle but for want of water.
Are not Cloth and Spanish Wool brought to & carried from London by Lechlade Canal.
Yes, they may be carried from Lechlade on Navigation to London - i.e. 3 parts of the way to London.
If the Canal made, would these commodities be carried coastwise?
Not probable, on account of the distance, delay and hazard. - The produce of the Country above Stroud, not more than sufficient for the consumption of the County - no minerals or wares for Bristol China - Cloth is the Staple Manufactory - the poor was never better employed than at present - if new Manufactories set up, would raise price of Labour and Commodities.
What is the price of Land Carriage from Framilode to Wallbridge?
From 6s to 6s 6d - Coals are carried to all parts of Stroud at 6s 6d.
In what Season is Coals laid in?
In the Summer Months - there is an additional Toll of 2s 6d in Winter - the Poor are supplied by Horse Loads in Winter. Horses are exempt from the 2s & 6d winter Toll - Expence in carrying Coals from Wallbridge to Stroud 2s or 2s & 6d per Ton.
Withdrew,
John Dymmock
Is acquainted with the River and Mills - 19 St Mills 42 Stock Mills - they have more trade now than 20 or 30 years past - We could do more if we had more water - Summer Season, It last from 3 to 5 or 6 months - lie by from ⅓d to ½ of the Time.
Near 5000 Persons are employed - In dry Seasons Stroudwater supplied by Streams that must be used for the Canal - the Water runs by the upper Mills on Sunday, or the lower Mills would be dry on Monday.
Don't you know that the Waste Water runs into the Severn on a Sunday?
Knows nothing of it. Last Summer was a wet Season, and we did not lie by 3 Months.
Withdrew,
William Foley - Clerk to Purnell & Co.
They have 2 Setts of Mills on Stroudwater - they are consistently employed but would be more if they had more water - they are obliged to lie by for 3 to 6 months - we have not sufficient Supply of water - no water but from Stroudwater - these Works were created at the Expencs of about 7000£. - These will be affected in proportion to the loss of water - These are the last Mills on the Stream next the Severn - the Water that runs from the Upper Mills on Sunday comes to them on Monday - all Stopt in dry Seasons - We have a very flourishing Trade - more orders than we can supply - they have lately erected new Brass Works - in dry Season can only work part of the Mills - this lasts some times 8 Months - not above 4 Months can we keep all our Wheels going - Sometimes 2 out of 6, and one out of 3 lie idle - If we could keep the 9 Mills constantly going should have work enough.
Is the Stream rapid or gentle?
Not very much of a current and therefore require more water for our Wheels..
How long does the Water run from Stroud to the Severn on a Sunday?
That depends on the penning it - On Sunday Gates are drawn up.
How long without impediment would it be running 9 or 10 Miles from Wallbridge to the Severn?
Twice 3 hours - All my Judgement is, In Summer on Monday we Stop for want of Water.
Question repeated?
Thinks about 6 Hours.
Did you set up new Wheels for Brass Works?
No - added one Wheel - which is not made use of but when there is plenty of Water.
Withdrew.
Joseph Clowes - to the quantity of Water requisite for the Canal
I am Engineer - well acquainted with Navigable Canals, for 9 years last past.
What quantity of water is requisite to keep up the Canal of 42 feet wide, 6 deep and 8 miles long?
It ,must depend on the Nature of the Land.
What Land wastes most water?
Gravel, Sand & Stone wastes most water.
If that is a gravelly Soil, what quantity of water necessary.?
More Locks there are the less water will be expended out of the head.
How much water will each Lock take?
Suppose the Locks are 10 Feet and 12 such Locks on the Canal 10.000 Square feet of Water will be necessary for a Boat.
What proportion will this bear to the Water in the River and the Water requisite for the Canal?
It will depend on the Feeder - the Canal can't be supplied without taking a great deal of Water from the Stroud River, or the Stream that flows in - enough Water cannot be taken on Sunday to supply the Canal without injury to the River - Banks cannot be made so as to prevent water Ouzing - gravelly Soil will let out more water than other Soils. Thinks the canal joining the River will be inconvenient, as the Canal may draw Mill Ponds dry, in those places where it joins the River and this can't be prevented - They must either distress the Mill Ponds or the River.
When did you see the River?
Saturday last - never there before - Saw a great deal of the Soil - was there from Saturday noon til Sunday 10 o'Clock - The Land between the Canal and the River will be mush hurt by cutting into Slips.
Withdraw.
Act 32 Geo 2d & 3d Geo 3d read relating to making Stroudwater Navigable.
Danl Jenner - His Master is Steward to the Corporation of Gloucester, and rents Mills of the Corporation - 2 Grist Mills - 3 pairs of Stock & a Gigg Mill - Sometimes ⅓d of water, sometimes ½ wanting - in dry Seasons, Stop 4, 5 or 6 months - Stop for the Day in dry Seasons - obliged to Stop 12 Hour in a Day for Water.
Withdrew,
Mr Selwyn, examined a Witness on behalf of the Corporation of Gloucester.
Mr Mansfield and Mr Lee heard for the Bill.
Mr Yeomans examined - Has Surveyed the intended Canal - It is a very practicable Scheme - Estimate of Expence is 20.000£ - It man, he apprehends be done for that Sum, & will be advantageous to the Trade of the Country - The Reason is the Badness of the Roads - never saw worse Turnpike Roads - Water Carriage will come cheaper - has taken notice of the Mills.
Will it do harm to the Mills?
It would do harm, if care had not been take to supply the loss of water which the Navigation must take - Care has been taken to Supply Water to the Mills & is sufficient in my opinion to supply the defect of water, by making the upper canal next to Stroud 3 feet deeper than necessary for Navigation in order to receive Sundays Water for Supply of Navigation - can't speak to the past of Waste Water - Has taken several Surveys of River, in 1755, 1774 & 1775 - paid particular attention to the quantity of water that runs down - I always saw a considerable Quantity of Water run waste on Sunday - I was there in different kinds of weather but did not make my observations on that, but give it as my opinion - Mills will be as valuable after navigation as now - have nothing to apprehend.
Will the Mills be as valuable after the Navigation as now?
Very clear they will - took different appretures at Mr Cooks Mill whose 1st Reservoir ? be, & the last Mill but one, and from these appertures, different Observations have been made on Sunday of the Waste Water - the Result I have which I calculated myself.
8th October 1775 Mr Cooks waste at 2 o'Clock ran at the rate of 37,990 Tons in 24 Hours or 255 Locks full of Water - there is an additional Stream - comes in Woodchr Stream - in 24 Hours that was the quantity, but the Reservoir will contain 90 Locks Full - there will be 3 or 4 times as much run to Waste as would fill the Reservoir.
How many Locks per Day will the Navigation want?
3 Locks full per day will supply the Trade of Navigation - Surveyed the ground through which the canal will pass - the Soil is the most favourable I ever saw in my Life.
Can the canal be made without making the Land boggy?
Not if executed as it ought to be, the Land will not be damaged, and it will take up much less here to execute it properly, than any he knows - Is not the Projector or Undertaker of this Business.
Do you take into the Estimate the Land that is covered by the Soil thrown out of the Canal?
8th October 1775 - Was that a wet Season?
I only saw the appertures
What kind of Soil is it?
3 Miles gravelly - in general not gravelly - the places I had holes dug in the Ground, by which I discovered the Soil - in general it is not gravelly.
What is your contrivance to supply the Water?
I have mentioned one Reservoir - but now make mention of another - a Canal from Mr Turners Mills is to be made 2 feet deeper that the Navigation - that will hold 74 Locks of Water of different Locks - that will amply Supply the Navigation, and afford some for Mills - i.e. the Water that runs waste on Sunday.
Is not the Water always used on Monday?
All mills except Fulling Mills on Saturday Night draw up their Gates, and the Waters run to Waste - sometimes the Water runs too long - If properly regulated there would be water abundantly sufficient - It's proposed to go into the River twice - it is possible to make it without - but better to go into it - The chief purpose is not to get the water out of the River, but for the convenience of the Navigation - Is both a Calculator & Undertaker & practical Engineer.
Have you known a Canal made where there has been such a Number of Mills?
The River Nene was made Navigable, under his Management and Inspection - a great many Mills between Northampton and Thrapston - from Northampton to Poth 50 Miles - I live in London - Knows a great deal about fulling & Cloathing Mills - was brought up in the Cloathing Trade - Never was at Stroudwater but 3 times - The Mills from Northampton & Poth believe are all undershot - Understand art of Gauging.
How many Cubical Feet in a Ton of Water?
36 Feet.
Can the Mills below Wallbridge be secured from want of Water?
Yes - and Banks from Ouzing - 3 miles is gravelly, the other is Clay and Loom - Knows Froombridge and the Turnpike Road - I have seen it when flood very high - It was not over the Road - Turnpike is higher than River by 6 Feet - Knows Houghton Bridge where Canal falls into the River - Soil there is Loom - the Banks there will be raised with Earth out of the Canal, to keep Towing path out of flood water - there might be back drains to carry of the Water that would remain on Land - at a flood Water will lie on the Lands, but can answer for the Banks that they will withstand.
How many Bridges are there?
10 Carriage Bridges, besides Bridges for Communication.
Whats the Diameter of Bridges?
About 18 Feet wide - which will admit Vessels of 70 Tons - canal will be lower by the Turnpike Road, and no great rise or Descent on the upper side - All the abutments of Bridges will be of Stone - all these in his Calculan of Expences - Surveyed the Mouth of the River - but made no Calculan of the quantity of Water that goes out.
Would you undertake it for 20.000£?
Yes
Withdrew.
To prove actual Waste of Water
Joseph Grace
What Quantity of Water Water at the lower Mills.
It runs 190.000 in 24 Hours in the dryest Seasons i.e. that is 700 Locks in a Day - on 27th Augt - there had been dry Weather for some Time, and at the Time.
Withdrew
Act 3 Geo 2 read
Mr Bearcroft heard by way of reply.
Mr Selwyn heard,.
Counsel withdrew.
